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first thing I did when I got the books I

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went to the index and I said okay here

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are all the near-death experience

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researchers I've talked to are they in

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there no name after name after name none

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of them in there you know a couple years

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ago I interviewed Jan Holden from the

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University of North Texas who along with

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Bruce dr. Bruce Grayson from the

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University of Virginia two of the most

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prominent names in near-death experience

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research they compiled this book the

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handbook of near-death experiences

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mainly for people in the medical

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community so that when they encounter

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someone who comes up out of a cardiac

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arrest and said hey I had this

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incredible experience they can be at

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least familiar with what to tell them at

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the time they published this book

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Michael in 2009 they had over a hundred

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peer-reviewed papers that they included

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in their book by now

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there's over 200 peer-reviewed papers I

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think I see any of that in your book I

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think it's important we make it look

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yeah I don't have to cite everybody

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that's ever written on the subject but

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you know any of them you don't say Sam

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Carney who else

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presented both of them but you have

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least cited them right let's back up for

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a second and I have to say you know Evan

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Alexander I want to talk about him but

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technically he's not a near-death

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experience researcher he's a Harvard

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neurosurgeon that had a near-death

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experience a book about it right that's

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right but he knows a lot about it he

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knows as much as you do

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much as I do because he but he hasn't

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published peer-reviewed papers on

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looking at the science peer-reviewed

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paper thing is a that's a red herring

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I'm not denying that people have real

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experiences you're you're treating this

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as if the experiences represent some

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other dimension I haven't a place to go

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and that is not at all what these

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peer-reviewed papers indicate all's they

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say is that the people that have the

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experiences have very real experiences

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which I agree the experiences these

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people have are very real people can get

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that from ayahuasca from ecstasy from

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deep meditation and so on we know this

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you can get it from brain stimulation

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you get it from

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deprivation I mean you think you seem to

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think it's something beyond that well

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here's where I would focus on is on the

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research on the science

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I don't think peer review is a red

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herring per se I think when you look

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it's the best means we have right now in

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science for policing science finding out

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if people are doing good working again

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I'll get to that okay so I'd say you're

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not a doctor so when we get into medical

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fields I like to look at doctors

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I like the near-death experience

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research from a guy named Jeff long

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radiation oncologist right so this is a

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guy who works with death and dying

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patients all the time yeah also happens

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to be a near-death experience researcher

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compiled the largest database of

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near-death experiences analyzed it

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scientifically with a scientific survey

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and here's what he says I'll pull that

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up for you right now but how do they

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sort through it how do they know what

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research really holds up out there the

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key thing is to know a few of the

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consistently seen elements of near-death